the differences i think can be attributed to the fact that i've told tons of people who want to learn how to crochet to just buy your book without even considering another. so there's no reason for them to read the reviews. and then they're so enamoured with the book and the craft that they don't even take the time to post a review.

how's that?

by the way, there were a few crocheters at the NHSW festival. and i wore my orange crocheted scarf so i was able to bond.

Speaking as both a crocheter and a former marketing employee of a publishing house, I attribute a lot of those knitting post comments to friends of the knitting book author (seriously; it's a good idea to have your friends do this, anonymously of course).

Well, you already know about my kumbaya-fiberlovers-unite attitude towards loving all stitches equally, and after considering this post, have come up with: I have no clue.

Using Amazon does have a built-in flaw, which is that you are limiting yourself to Amazon data, and don't know how the books are selling relative to each other in brick-and-mortar stores, for example. All I have to do to sell TYV Crochet is put the book in the hand of someone who wants to learn - one look at the photos and a quick read of the written instructions, and the book is sold. Plus, crocheters outnumber knitters, which means that in a lot of places, it's really easy to find someone to teach you if you are interested. There is a craft store here that has crochet workshops and classes just about every day of the week, but no knitting classes. There are LYS knitting classes, but if you are out in the 'burbs, it's the craft store or nothing. Anecdotally, I know more crocheters than knitters who were taught as a child by a family member.

As for tech-savvy? I don't think we can gather enough data to get anywhere with that one, but I can tell you that roughly 60 - 70% of the hits on my blog come from searches for amigurumi and from sites like Crochet Pattern Central. If the hit comes from a far-flung location (Brazil, Turkey, Norway, etc.), it's most likely for amigurumi.

Gee, I wonder what got you thinking about this topic today....
Mary Beth

There's also that statistic that gets bandied about--that there are actually more crocheters out there than knitters--perhaps crocheters are a less outspoken lot... but FYI--I'll head over there and review the book right now..

OH---AND isn't it interesting that your book sells pretty much just as well as the knitting book even though you don't have as many reviews/comments?

Regarding the comments thing: You ask people to leave you reviews. Or people who know you (or feel they know you) leave them. I think it has little to do with popularity, save the fact that I think it suggests that there is a broader community of knitters, or a stronger sense of community felt by knitters, so they feel a greater connection to a new book and its author?

I think the most telling statistic offered is "those who looked at this ultimately bought..." for TYV Crochet, 40% bought it, 35% bought Dummies. For TYV Knitting, 42% bought it, 32% bought Dummies.
Much more interesting: Those who looked at Crochet for Dummies were MORE likely to buy TYV Crochet (44% vs 40%). Those who looked at Knitting for Dummies tended to buy it (60%), with Knit Wit as a very distant second (20%). The latter may be an artifact of the difference in release dates between KfD and TYVK. Still, interesting to ponder.

Yep, it's true, it's about getting your friends to post a review. And if a weirdo posts a negative review, you get friends to counter that one.

That aside, I've heard that crocheters aren't readers, and that's why crocheters don't have the equivalent of "Knit Lit" type books whereas for knitting there's oh, what, like 20? I've pondered that one for years--what could that mean that 'crocheters aren't readers'? I know someone who wrote a crochet book and her publisher told her to remove all the interesting text she'd written because "crocheters only want the patterns." Huh. I'm a crocheter and I read.

I'm thinking that maybe it has a lot more to do with how connected crocheters are, not whether they read or not. You can't show'n'tell what you've read if there's no one there. I've been to the SnB-type groups where I'm the ONLY crocheter and do I talk about crochet books with knitters? Rarely.

Knitters can find out about a great new book while they're getting their fix at a yarn shop, because yarn shops serve knitters. The employees are going to be knitters and they're going to be talking about the knitting books and learning which books work well for their customers and in their classes and developing strong opinions about the best books and telling even more knitters. Yarn shops do not function like a community depot for crocheters. It's not like craft stores do instead either!! Crocheters have nothing in this respect. It's a groundswell waiting to happen.

I suspect no one knows who crocheters really are and what they really want because otherwise, how can there be so many more of them than knitters and you wouldn't know it? Maybe that's why almost every time I hear someone say, "Crocheters are X" or "Crocheters want X" it doesn't ring true to me.

I think everyone has some great points. And Vashti--I'm totally on board with you. I've tried to start a Crochet Club, but it's been hard to get going. I'm pretty voal about my love of crochet and good sources for good crochet ideas. But maybe we just have some catching up to do with knitters in that respect. Maybe these non-reading crocheters are the TP-cozy type. Because I don't buy the crap about crocheters not being readers. I read! Most crochet mags, yarn stores, etc. need to have a better understanding of the crochet market. Or at least the new crochet market.

My LYS always gives me crap about being "the crocheter." Good-natured crap, but still crap. And it gets annoying. I'm there spending money just like the knitters! Although I will say that it's been nice because they've paid me to crochet them some things.

All that said, I think that it is getting better. Thanks in part to awesome resources/communities like CrochetMe!

I am a crocheter who knows how to knit. I have recently been exploring my knitting side more and I have to admit that there is "more" available to meet the needs of knitters. I have found a welcoming community in knitting that I did not find in crocheting. I am not saying that the community is not there and is not welcoming but that it has not made its presence known.

I also think that crocheters are more likely just crocheting and don't desire the diva spotlight.

The awful truth must be told... In a group I have joined where someone believed they would need flame retardant clothing if they admitted to crocheting a pattern - I did say that I consider myself to be slumming in the knitting aisles. - my bad! (but I'm not sorry!)

Crocheters aren't readers? I hope the blogosphere will provide enough proof to publishers that it's not necessarily so.

Im a crocheter only and I work at a LYS, and since I started working there I've managed to not only expand the crochet book section to 3 times its original size and the pattern section to be much larger too, but I believe I've managed to discourage the anti-crochet attitude among the employees and some of the regular customers as well. I think we all just need to get out there and make ourselves heard. If your LYS doesnt carry crochet books ask why. Get all your crochet friends to go in and demand crochet! Have your crochet group meet at your LYS so that they realize they DO have an audience that theyre not reaching. We as crocheters want good patterns and good magazines, and more good books! Go in to your LYS with printouts from Amazon and tell them, I'd rather buy this from you, will you carry it??

Reading the comments from those who find that their LYS is more knit-oriented, I realize that I must be in an unusual location. The LYS here are VERY crochet-friendly, with books, patterns, magazines, and supplies for crocheters, and zero stigma. In a conversation about knitting a bikini, one LYS owner suggested I try crocheting it instead for a firmer, less likely to sag result. I'm guessing that having an LYS owner recommend crocheting an item instead of knitting it is not an experience most of you have had? The craft stores are very crochet-friendly as well.

"Crocheters aren't readers". Oh, really.
Well, the only point where I recognize that knitting is superior to crochet is that you can actually knit and read in the same time, while I find it impossible to do so while crocheting.
But this opinion makes me wonder: Is this the reason why I can't find any "theory" books about crochet? I want technical stuff, not necessarily patterns (or technical stuff as comments to patterns).
I find loads and loads of this around knitting, about shaping, about cables, about lace, about a zillion different ways to achieve desired results, but so little around crochet.
There is interesting information to be found in the "basics" books - but where do you go from there?
Knitters don't have to reinvent the wheel every time they decide to do something "new". Why do crocheters have to do this? How could we gather "advanced" information, steer our explorations in different directions (there is only so much a single person can do)?

Everyone does have some great comments! I too think its weird that there are not more excellent advanced crochet books out there. I am always searching books for a nook or cranny here and there. And don't get me started on LYS! The one that I love (b/c of the yarn), only carries bamboo hooks and not every size. And we all know that sometimes those bamboo hooks just don't get it done like aluminum.

It makes me wonder though, back to the old thinking that crochet was a not-expensive hobby. Maybe that's not an old thinking- b/c if the LYS saw that they had a need for crochet supplies- I am sure they would supply them, and big box stores (like Micheals) carry so many hooks and books b/c we crocheters tend to always want a bargain? Just musing here.

Before I was a knitter, I was a crocheter (and before that, I was an embroiderererer). When I crocheted, it was pretty much limited to afghans, teddy bears, and filet crochet. Personally, I don’t find that the fabric you typically get by crocheting makes clothes that I would wear. It’s too dense and boxy. There weren’t really any patterns I liked beyond interesting stitches that you could use for afghans or novelty things like stuffed animals or a little sofa for the cat (I haven’t gotten around to making that yet). I only went to craft stores for yarn (always acrylic) and patterns (almost always of the Annie’s Attic and Vannah White variety). There just wasn’t much available that I really liked. I did start looking for vintage crochet patterns, but still, I didn’t find anything I’d wear. I was getting bored with Red heart blankets, so I decided to try knitting.

In searching for knitting patterns online, I discovered the knitblog community and a lught bulb went on. Amazing free patterns for things I wanted to wear! Gorgeous pattern books at the book store with – yep – things I wanted to wear! And the yarn. Oh, the yarn. I really had no idea as a crocheter that there was such an array of yarn. I never would have been able to afford to make a blanket out of luxury yarn, but a little scarf? Heck yeah! And that’s when I became really excited about knitting.

And I finally see it happening with crochet. I’m seeing more and more patterns for great stuff. A fresh batch of designers are giving it a whole new face. They’re finally getting crocheters out of the craft store and into the yarn store. I was at the book expo in DC last week and there are a bunch of crochet books coming out that are aimed at a younger audience. It’s not just about “country living” any more.

To me, knitting and crocheting are pretty much the same thing. I understand the fundamental differences in tools and finished product, but the idea is the same. The obsession is the same. And now that the “hipness” is catching up I think the two will be able to exist together nicely. Maybe knitters are still thinking of crocheters as “boring old ladies”, but isn’t that what everyone else thought of knitters?

I also thing the difference between knitters and crocheters, the rivalry, the snobbery, is kind of a joke that can get easily misunderstood or taken too far. It’s all yarn, baby. Now, tatting? That’s a whole other thing.

(sorry, that got really long)

These comments really are interesting! I am excited about all the new options out there, like Debbie mentioned above. I liked knitting and got jazzed over the s&b books, but I really prefer to crochet. It was so annoying to think "I love this design, but I'll be 60 before I can finish it!" Now there are so many more cool crochet books out there to choose from.

A funny LYS snob story: I went in to the closest LYS to me (there are luckily several in the metro area), and started looking around. I was wearing a crocheted cloche I made, and was complimented on it. The proprietor was surprised it was crocheted. Then she asked, "Do you knit?" and I said that I did, but I really preferred crocheting since it was a lot easier for me. She looked puzzled, and said, "Oh...Well you should really try knitting sometime. We have classes for beginners." ? Ok lady. It's just so silly in the long run, this "rivalry." It's not like I dip the yarn in yogurt and pull it through my nose to crochet. Most people don't even know the difference between the two.

As for being readers or not--I know what Vashti means about having nothing but patterns in crochet magazines (just got one yesterday, in fact!). I want to know how people got to the pattern they got. I want to know if they tried different fibers, what's tricky about any stitch patterns etc...if they ripped it out 20 times, raining curses on their yarn before they got to the beautiful finished product. Some patterns are pretty self-explanatory (Barbie twinset with miniskirt) but I would love to see more than the bare pattern.

Many crocheters will say something to the effect that knitting is better than crochet for clothing, because the crocheted fabric is stiffer or bulkier, or something. This was alluded to in the comments here but I'm not picking on any one person. Debbie Stoller herself says this in the Sharks n' Jets part of her book. I'm always surprised when a crocheter says this though (never surprised when a knitter says it). I don't think anyone can state with certainty what crochet can or can't do yet. It's never been given the royal treatment for fashion clothing, except as lace in the 1800's (and it performed splendidly for that!).

I'm suspicious when the Division of Labor Strategy is employed: "Crochet is best for bags, belts, rugs, ghans, and lace; knitting is better for tubes to cover bodies (socks, clothes etc). Now can't we all get along?" Well, yeah, except that even though Debbie S. sees it this way, and so does Margery Winter over at Berroco for example, they go on to contradict their official statement by offering crocheted clothing that is not stiff or clunky or whatever. And I know people who do both and when they *crocheted* their first pair of socks, never wanted to knit a pair again because of how they feel and last.

I love crocheted clothing and I love the challenge of making it do trendy things and have fashionable qualities. I learn something new and often subtle about what makes crochet drape or slink or cling or stretch everytime I make something. It's starting to look to me like crochet as it is taught--Canonical Crochet--is, from a fashion standpoint, "Jacket Crochet". Why does everyone dis crochet for being 'stiff', as if it doesn't measure up to--what?--could it be....KNITTING?, when instead this crochet as traditionally taught, is great for coats, jackets, structured pieces. As for other kinds of clothing such as drapy empire-waisted camisoles or bias-drape-front cardi's, or languid flare-sleeved peasanty tops, or fluid tunic-dresses, or clingy pencil skirts etc., it takes a different kind of crochet, and I don't know where it's taught. Not only a different choice of yarn (something silky and lank, luminous, stretchy, whatever), and a different choice of gauge (not afghan gauge; not the firm gauge you use for thread and lace; etc), and a careful choice of stitch pattern (they all have different kinds of flex in different directions) but you can really make the edges work for you long before you add an edging--mess with the turning chains and the foundation chains and the direction you drape the rows, for example.

I think when beginners are taught crochet, they are not also given the impression that this is a fashion tool, which is a form of guidance and subliminal direction. And so they are not taught the tips and tricks or fine adjustments to the canonical crochet they would need for that kind of crochet, and it's not easily available anywhere else. I suspect that when a beginner learns knitting, the assumption is communicated that of course one will be knitting clothing someday. I doubt any knitting teacher teaches with the dream that the student will go on to knit great afghans or doilies. I doubt many new knitters start out knitting a washcloth. I'm not knocking crocheted washcloths--thousands swear by them--but think of the direction in which a beginner is pointed! (BTW Kim, anything I said about teaching crochet has nothing to do with your awesome book!)

The main issue I have with knitting vs. crocheting is that crochet keeps being treated like the red-headed stepchild.

In the latest Renegade Craft Fair in Brooklyn, there were not only no crochet artists (which can simply be put to the fact that none of them wanted to go - there were some Bi folk there, knitters who also crochet) but EVERY handspun yarn artist catered to knitters only. The labels had what needle gauge to use, but no hook size, and both patterns and accessories involved were for knitters only. (One booth had crochet hook cases - bless their souls. They are not more difficult to make than needle cases after all. Most little local yarn stores cater to both, but the specialty yarn stores, the better and brighter folk ALL cater to knitters - barely acknowledging crocheters at all.

I rather would like to learn how to knit, due to all the interesting things you can make with it. ANd since I see how well Debbie Stoller did crochet instructions, I would start with her.

But until crochet stops getting treated like an inferior art, until the yarn folk out there realize there are many yarn crafts, and that it behooves them to support all the yarn brothers and sisters, hookers and needlers alike, I'm sticking to my hook.

I would definitely like to thank Vashti though, I have often thought that there is no reason why crochet cannot be as stretchy and drapey as Knitting - although I do believe it may take a little more work to figure out how. Despite Debbie Stoller's slight bias on the matter, at least three patterns in the Hooker book prove this point - being far less bulky looking than almost any other crochet garments I've seen.

You've inspired me to experiment. Thanks!

Hi Vashti! I met you on Wed. at PDD and I told you I had some of the same ideas you do about looking for trends, etc. I also told you how much I admire you and that you are a "real" designer:) For those of you who do not know me, I'm a fairly new designer and am one of those people who is trying to make it a priority to help make crochet designs acccepted in the fashion world. I've read all these comments and agree with what's been said, and am also concerned about the way the knitting world looks at crocheting. I am very excited about the huge boom that crochet has had over the past 2 years, and think it's way past time for this fun and gorgeous craft to take the wheel in the fashion world! We will no longer take a back set to knitting! Do you agree? As far as drape, to me the answer is the yarn, the stitch and which hook you use. I absolutely love the look of knitting and learned to do it once but crochet is what I pursued and it is my passion. To me, crochet is faster and much more fun. I teach crochet to many eager teens, and young women in their 20's - 60's. One beautiful 27 year old Romanian girl, a long time knitter, litterly jumped up and down the night I taught her to crochet. She said, "This is SO much fun! Why didn't you teach me this a long time ago?" Of course I relunctantly started her out on a Newsboy cap she was dying to make. Because of her enthusiam, she caught on to the stitch pattern very fast. If you want to get someone excited about learning to crochet, don't just teach them and send them on their way. You have to get them started on a project they can get excited about, not just a square pot holder! This is getting into a different subject, but one of my closest friends came to me recently wanting to learn to crochet again. I had taught her several years ago, but she never made anything. This time, I actually started a scarf for her by making the foundation ch and a couple of rows (after she practiced for 2 hours) Two months later she had made 19 scarves as gifts for Christmas!! So this goes to show what a little help will do for a person. Back to why I originally wanted to comment on this blog, I just wanted to let you all know I am doing a crochet book with Krause publishing that not only has many crochet designs (mostly wearables and accessories) but I am giving positive and encouraging tips on life and am relating that to crochet. I've spoken to many women's groups on relationships such as marriage, children and life, so why not put some of those helpful thoughts into my crochet book? I feel I have a lot to offer, and want to share this with you, as a crocheter and human being. For those of you who like to read, as stated here, you will find many thoughts on all kinds of relationships that I believe will help a person in general, not just the crocheter. The positive comments and tips will not be long. I will have a short paragraph on each pattern page, but they are very powerful and will help to make your life happier. I want a crocheter to come away loving my designs (50+ patterns) but having a warm, fuzzy feeling as well. I just signed the contract with the publisher 2 weeks ago, so my book will not be released until Oct 07'. I do have many deigns out there, some easy enough for a 5 yr. old (crochet calender 07') but also have many trendy wearables (beginner-intermediate)in various books and magazines. (Crochet! magazine and books as well) I also have 2 booklets/leaflets published by Leisure Arts, called Crochet Young and Trendy and Crochet in Style which I've been told are selling very well. If you've never been to the Chain Link Conference, I need to make a comment about that. When my husband asked me how I would rate it on a scale from 1-10, I said a 14! It was one of the best experiences of my life! Sorry this is so long, but I promise it won't be next time :)

This has been one very interesting blog entry! So many of the points ya'll have made really hit home with me. I learned how to crochet about a year & a half ago, and the more I do it, the more I fall in love!

I also have a couple of choice LYS stories (don't get me started on the store clerk who totally did NOT believe me when I told her my cool felted purse was crocheted!) On top of the other crochet-pariah problems ya'll have talked about, another one I have is being a "lone" crocheter. I've tried reaching out to people in my area via the Crochetville site, but to no avail. I thought about joining an area knitting club through one of our LYSs, but most of them don't fit in with my 9-to-5, Monday-Friday work schedule. (Not to mention the "funny" looks I got when I said "Well, I don't knit, but I'd really like to join... Is that okay?")

I did find a group at one of my LYSs that met at 7:00 pm on Thursdays & they had no bias what so ever about my choice of hook over needles. And their members ranged in age from late 20's to mid 50's; I'm a "still-really-young-on-the-inside" 40, so the age group seemed just right. But I felt uncomfortable & awkward because I was the only never-been-married, don't-have-any-childen chick in the room. Sigh. So not only could I not contribute to the knitting conversations, I couldn't really join in on the "life-on-the-home-front" chats either.

Don't get me wrong, there are times I wish I was married & had a little one of my own; it just hasn't turned out that way. I have nothing but love & respect for my friends who have been able to take that path (none of them crochet or have any interest in trying, BTW) But it doesn't change the fact that after a couple of meetings, I felt like such an outsider that I said "thanks for having me & good-bye."

Well, thanks for letting me rant & whine, and my apologies for getting a bit off-topic. And thank you SO much for creating this awesome web site! It was the first crochet site I ever visited, and is still my #1 favorite. It's great to have a virtual group of crochet-friends I can "hook up with", even if we can't all meet in person.

BTW: Lana, I loved the way you called knitters who also crochet "Bi folk." That made me laugh out loud!